From Stalemate to Skyscrapers: Iran, October 7, and Gaza's Future

Welcome back, friends. Today on the Fairfax Files, we're joined by Ofir Akunis, Israeli Consul General in New York. And Ambassador Akunis spent 15 years in Israel's Knesset, where he held several senior government positions, including Minister of Innovation, Science and Technology and Minister of Regional Cooperation. During his tenure overseeing regional cooperation, Israel entered the Abraham Accords with the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Morocco, and Sudan. He later established the Knesset's Abraham Accords Caucus. Thank you, Mr. Ambassador, for being with us today.

Thank you for having me.

Look, for our viewers who are not certain, you are the Consul General here in New York. What does that mean? What is your responsibility?

A lot. First of all, to represent the homeland of the Jewish people, the State of Israel. Not only here in New York, I'm talking about 5 different states. It's New York, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Delaware. But as the head of the biggest embassy of Israel in the world, the consulate here in New York is the biggest. It's not in Washington, not in London, not in Paris or Berlin. It's here. The biggest embassy of Israel. So, I can, you know, find myself in Florida from time to time, California as well, and Texas, wherever. But the most important thing is to represent the State of Israel here and to engage with my colleagues all around the world, by the way, the Consul General of India or the Consul General of Mexico, whatever. And of course, to defend the Jewish community here, or actually the communities, it's 5 different countries, as I said, 5 different states, so to defend them and to ensure their safety.

And so you started your career, from what I understand, in media, and then went on from there to politics. You were, what, 13 years in the Knesset, if I'm not mistaken?

15 years in the Knesset.

15 years.

15 years in the Knesset, 7 years in the government. You know that, you know, you don't have to be, by the way, an MK, members of Knesset, to be a minister. But I served, I did both.

You were Minister of Regional Cooperation.

Regional Cooperation, Science and Technology.

And if I'm not mistaken...

Most of the time, Minister of Science and Technology.

But if I'm not mistaken, when you were Minister of Regional Cooperation, it was during the negotiations of the Abraham Accords.

You're right. You're absolutely right. And I actually, I, the very first delegation from Bahrain, from Bahrain, of Bahrain, yes, I asked them to come. That was November 2020. They came, a huge delegation. We talked about trade, economy issues, and various fields that we want to cooperate, and we are doing it since then. I'm not the minister now. Someone else is doing it.

A lot has happened since then, of course.

And of course, the very... and another delegation, by the way, I sent my... because of COVID I sent my Director General then to Abu Dhabi. That was even before November 2020. I think that it was... I don't know, what was it? July? No, we signed the agreements, that was September 2020. So, it was October.

And a lot has happened since then, but I want to ask you, What motivated you to get into politics in Israel?

Instead of working in the media?

It's a good question. It's a good question. The real story is that I thought back then, at the age of 23, that if you want to do something, to do something, not just to be, you know, an anchor or to be like like an analyst, you need to do it there, in Jerusalem, in the Knesset. So, I actually moved from media to politics.

So, I do know that there's substantial differences between the political system in Israel and here in the United States.

What do you mean?

But we do have something in common.

Huge difference. What is it?

Huge difference, that we have our elections coming up.

Of course.

We have our midterms coming up in early November. You have your general elections coming up in late October.

That's right, October 27th. Actually, not like you, by the way, because Canada is a democracy and your neighbors, most of them, you can find yourself with democratic countries around you. We are the only democracy in the Middle East. This is totally different. Our situation is totally different. There's no election in... Jordan, there's no election in Syria, and there's no election maybe once in 10 years to the Palestinian Authority. And it's totally different system.

Well, tell us a little bit about it. Yours is a coalition system.

You must build a coalition. So, it's like you need 5 or 6 different factions from the Knesset, to establish the new government, and of course the prime minister. So if someone will, and a lot of people I think will go on October 27th to vote, they will not vote directly to the prime minister. They will, they must vote to a party, and the party become a faction in the Knesset, in the parliament. And then they need the confidence vote. You need 61 votes, 61 seats out of 120 to establish a new government. You can do it with more. You can't do it with less.

But like here in the United States, in Israel, you have those on the left, those in the center, and those on the right.

Of course.

And so your prime minister, like our politicians, have got to try to appease enough centrists to be able to get support?

Yeah, first of all, I can't, as an ambassador, I can't speak about the current campaigns, campaign in Israel, and the election in Israel. It's very complicated, because I want to talk about it, but I can't.

I understand.

Because now, as an ambassador, I can't do it. I have a lot of things to say, but let's hope, first of all, that it will be quiet, because the clash among the Israeli society, like here, I have to tell you, like among the American society, is something that I... you mentioned that I started as a reporter in the media. Of course, all through our history, we have our differences. It's okay. But I think that the year of 2023, that was very, very bad days to the domestic clash in Israel.

I mean, it changed the world. This was your 9/11. And you came here in your role as Ambassador, Consul General. Shortly after 2023, I think you came here.

It was May 1st, 2024, and the first day I watched from my office. By the way, it was like, I can't... I remember that I saw the live broadcast from Columbia University campus. I said to myself, what is it? Who are these people? Wild people? They tried to, I don't know, to break the Hamilton faculty. Like, what was it? You can criticize Israel, you can criticize the President of the United States, you can criticize the French president, it's okay. This is the basic idea of democracy. But to behave like that, like, what was it? I was shocked. I told my staff, then to my team, I said, what is it? And then we started to receive... So that was the beginning of a big change. That was the peak. That was the peak. May 2024, I think it was the worst days in the universities, in the campuses here. By the way, not only, Columbia, NYU, New School, what else? UCLA, on the West Coast. That was very bad. And I'm so very glad that now it's much better, I have to tell you.

Much better?

That the situation in the campuses, in the universities, it's much better. Maybe there's no money to pay to the protesters.

Well, look, but...

Did you hear what I say?

I did, yes.

Of course, they pay them.

Look, but a lot has changed. I mean, our traditional...

First of all, the president is a different president in the United States.

Yes, of course. So, our traditional alliance, the strength of our alliance between Israel and the United States, is now being questioned on a broader scale in our country. There are those that are not sure we should be as close as we've always been to Israel.

You can be close to the terrorists. The option, I know, cynically, of course, if there... I can't believe that we need to talk about it. There's a lot of people here, in the last 5, 4 years, and I don't know, especially 2, 3 years, elected officials, mayors, governors, who prefer the ayatollahs rather than they prefer their own president. It's a shame. It's a shame. You can criticize, of course, the State of Israel. What is going on? It's wrong. It's the wrong direction. You can criticize the President of the United States. You can criticize the Israeli Prime Minister. You can criticize our policy in Syria, in Lebanon, in Gaza, wherever. To prefer the ayatollahs? What's going on in this place? I'm wondering, you know, so you don't want to be close to Israel? Okay, cooperate with the Palestinians, buy from them all the new technologies, use their AI, use their desalination. You can't because there's no. Okay, so to all those people who prefer our enemies rather than Israel, my friend, it's not my problem. So it's a bad education. You know why? I will tell you. I'll continue with your permission.

Of course.

Because those mobs, who are chanting here, here in New York City, death to Israel. The second half of the sentence is death to America. Excuse me, get out, get out. You don't want... you wanted America, you want to kill America, don't be here. They are using the freedom of speech, yet the holy Constitution of the American people, we the people, it's the first sentence. So, we the people. And I'm not an American, I'm an Israeli. If you want to kill America, get out. Don't be here. Don't use the American democracy to destroy it.

It's a deeper question and a deeper issue. The problem, as I see it, is there's a group of immigrants in our country that refuse to assimilate and refuse to accept our culture, our way of life, and our democracy.

That's the whole story.

That's the problem. My parents, my grandparents were immigrants. We love immigrants, but we want them to come here to this country and we want them to participate as Americans. The spirit, the principle.

So, can I be rude with you?

Your parents, your parents came to the United States of America to be Americans. They want to be part of this wonder. I think that this place is a wonder. There's two wonders, by the way, in the modern era: the United States of America and the establishment, the return of the Jews to Zion and the establishment of the State of Israel. So, the people who you just mentioned, they came here, I don't know, 10, 15 years ago, 20 years ago. They don't want America. They don't want the American values. They want to force the Sharia laws. Do you want to live under the Sharia laws? Do you want to live under the Sharia laws? By the way, to be honest with you, they're saying it. I watched the clip. There is a young Muslim guy in Brooklyn, and he screamed. And it's a clip. You can see it. You can use it. Yeah, this is Mamdani's New York, where the church will turn to a mosque. Mask. We will force the Sharia laws on you. This land is not yours. By the way, he said it to the Americans, not to the Jewish community in Brooklyn. This land is not yours. That's what actually they're saying. And what is death to America? They're using... what is to wave Hezbollah flag? According to the State Department, Hezbollah is a terror organization. Okay? They are terrorists. Actually, it's a front unit of Iran. Okay? But they settled in Lebanon. By the way, they ruined, they ruined the beautiful country, the beautiful state of Lebanon. They ruined, the Iranians before the Syrians. Now they want to ruin this place. They want to take all of these, all this wonder, this wonder, Manhattan. Then first we take Manhattan, then we take Berlin. Yes? But now they took Berlin. They took Paris. They took London. They took Brussels. Now they want this place. Now it's your choice, my friend, as an American. Okay? Choose. Do you want to cooperate with Israel, the only democracy in the Middle East, or you want to be... or you want to live like the ayatollahs and like the Iranians? Choose. Believe me, you don't want to choose the ayatollahs.

Well, I don't think you would get, certainly no argument from me.

Oh, I know.

Nor would you get it from the vast majority of Americans.

No, I don't think so. I think there is a problem. There is, you know, a wide... I don't know, silent, silent, no, nothing, nothing. Elected officials afraid, afraid to say something. That's why they turn to their opinions. Okay, and automatically, if you, by the way, a few people who I met in the last two years, they said no, it's wrong. The policy toward Iran, it's wrong. Excuse me, Iran wants. So I don't believe that they need to convince the American people to save themselves. And ten years ago or fifteen years ago, and maybe when I will pass away, like all of us, one day we will not be here. You will take this interview and you, and of course, young people will say, oh, he said it in the year of 2026. But then it will be too late. It's too late in United Kingdom. It's too late in France. It's too late in Spain. Do you want to show your audience?

So, they can't reverse what's happened?

No, they're in Europe, finished.

Finished.

Finished. And by the way, not the whole...

But we still have time.

Not the whole continent. Not the whole continent. If the British people will raise their voices and they will act like the old British people who, like, stood proudly against the Germans during the Second World War, they stayed 8 months in the shelters. Yes. Beneath the streets of London. Why? They want to live. That's it. And if you and the American people don't want to do so, I'm sorry. And they will take hundreds of seats in the new Congress, hundreds of seats in Senate. What is it? Who is this guy in Michigan? Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.

You've got to let me ask questions.

He is a rude... He is a Jew hater. He hates America as well.

So look, you said something earlier that is quite true. We can debate the policies of Israel. That's not being anti-Semitic.

I agree.

Because there's Israelis who debate the policies in Israel. Of course.

Like there's Americans who debate America.

But we have to hold firm on the issue of terrorism.

Exactly.

On the issue of... the brand of Islam that wants to convert the world.

It's not the whole Islam.

No, no.

It's radical Islam.

The brand that wants to convert the rest of the world to Islam must be opposed and must be fought on every battlefront, whether it's here on our shores or overseas.

Exactly.

Is that right?

So I will tell you, yes. First of all, it's not the whole Islam. There's, you know, a few lectures, I can say, that ideas among the Islam. But the radical Islam, the ayatollahs, who turned Iran from a modern place, a modern country, to something like you can never, no women rights, no LGBTQ rights. If someone will protest like they did, by the way, what was the Tehran Massacre? By the way, where were Well, well, well, all the elected officials here who actually, the first tweet, they are just, you know, the first thing that they're doing in their day is to criticize Israel. Zero words about Tehran massacre. Zero. I checked it, believe me. I checked it. None of them said one word about the massacre in Tehran. None of them. So they're hypocrites. They only want to criticize Israel, and I agree with you, by the way, that it's not forbidden. You know, you can criticize Israel. You can say, you can argue about the need of the State of Israel to take back, actually, the Philadelphi Corridor between Egypt and the Gaza Strip. But if someone will say to me that it was a waste of time, I will say him, to him that this place, the Philadelphi Corridor, as an example, was actually the path of the terrorists to smuggle the weapon that they used for 25 years against the State of Israel. Now, I want to ask you and all these... those hypocrites who are criticizing Israel. Okay, I want to see one missile, one. One missile from New Jersey to New York. No New Jersey, less than 10, 24 hours. Now, we suffered from Hamas missiles for 25 years. It's not only October 7th. Do you think you know? You know. Shame on them. I saw with my own eyes 23 bodies in Dizengoff Street in Tel Aviv because a cruel terrorist who came from Gaza. That was the year 1994, one week before we signed the agreement, the peace treaty with Jordan. He came from Gaza and exploded himself in the middle of a bus in Dizengoff Square in Tel Aviv. Don't preach us.

I will never apologize for the fact that we are defending our country.

No, I was asking you about... you're an advocate. You're a very strong advocate, and I respect that. How did October 23rd happen? How could Israel allow that to happen?

Wow. We have 2 hours now? No, we don't.

Give me the short version.

Do you want the first?

Intelligence failure? Yes or no?

First of all, of course. What do you mean? Of course, it was an intelligence failure. We started this war with zero intelligence. The State of Israel, you know, with all our agencies, we failed in Gaza. We failed in the Gaza Strip, and I said it more than, I think, one or two times, a few times, in various, you know, meetings. Also in Israel, by the way, not only here. That was a huge, huge failure. Failure, but what was the main reason? There's a lot of reasons. There's a lot, but the main reason that we one day, by the way, after the Israeli Knesset, the Israeli Parliament, our democracy, the lighthouse of the Israeli democracy, the Knesset approved the withdrawal from the Gaza Strip. That was in the year of 2005. 2004, and we actually, the disengagement was, like these days, by the way, August 2005. So, we, by the way, we are the only nation, the only state in the world, who voluntarily destroyed her communities, synagogues, synagogues. We ruined synagogues in the Gaza Strip. Why? To give it to the Arabs? What for? That they will use these places to launch their missiles toward our cities, toward Tel Aviv, by the way, toward Jerusalem, toward Ashkelon, and other places. That was a huge mistake. Now, there's a few politicians, weak politicians, yes? In the world, not in Israel. I'm not talking about Israel because I can't. But in the world, I will not mention the names. They want to force us to withdraw from Judea and Samaria, from the hills, yeah, above Ben Gurion Airport. No flights. If the Arabs will be there and we will not be there on the hill of Samaria, you can't come to Israel. They will use their missiles versus aircrafts who just want to land in Israel. Now Judea, I'm wondering how someone wants to withdraw from Judea. I'm Jewish because my roots are in Judea. You know that only the Romans, the Romans, after they destroyed the Second Temple, erased the word Judea. And what was the new name? Palestine. So, no Arabs then. The Arabs invaded to the State of Israel, to the Land of Israel, in the year 700 after Christ. Okay? 700. So, 700 years before, they erased the name. And they, by the way, how did they call Jerusalem? They don't want that people will say in the world, Jerusalem. Al-Aqsa. So they called it Aelia Capitolina. That is also why Aelia Capitolina. That people will not say Jerusalem. Jerusalem is ours. We will not divide Jerusalem. This is our. By the way, like Menachem Begin used to say, you know what was his sentence? He said to the Americans during you know I think it was when Carter was the president of the United States, Jimmy Carter. Zichrono livracha, yes. He said, you have Washington, D.C., District of Columbia, and we have Jerusalem, D.C., David's capital. How smart he was.

So look, let's... rather than look at the past and how Israel came into being, let's look at the future because right now we're facing a crisis, crisis after crisis after crisis. Iran.

President Trump said we'll be in and out, 5, 6 weeks, it'll be over, Iran will be gone. It's now 6 months and there's still no end in sight and no easy solution in sight. What is the... what is your position? What's the Israeli position on what should be done in Iran?

You used the words, there's no easy solution, quote.

That's what, I agree. The ayatollahs destroyed Iran from 1979. So, it's almost, I don't know, almost 50 years. Soon it will be 50 years. Okay, they turned Iran from a beautiful place to a...

Wait, we're responsible for destroying Iran, by the way. The United States is responsible for destroying Iran.

I don't want to say it. I don't want to say it, but...

You're skipping the part about the Shah.

No, I know. Believe me that I do. You want me to criticize the American administration?

No, I will not.

Yes, criticize whoever you want.

I will not do it. It was... but I can say that it was an American and a French mistake. A huge mistake. Why a French mistake? First of all, the French are always for the ayatollahs. They are not for us. The French are not for us. And they are not for you, my friend. They are not for America. Because they prefer the ayatollahs rather than the United States of America. I'm not talking about the French people. I'm talking about the French governments. Okay? Or presidents. In France, it's usually presidents. Like Macron, yeah? Give me a break, with all due respect. So, he wants to force us, he wants to force us to withdraw from Lebanon? Send your soldiers to Lebanon to defend our people in Israel. If you want that Israel withdraw from the security zone in Israel, by the way, like it was under Iranian, actually, regime, because the Hezbollah was there. Until we reestablished the security zone in Lebanon. Okay, so it was an American and French mistake. Okay, back then. Why? Because they released Ayatollah Khomeini. They bought him a flying ticket from Paris with Air France, by the way. It's unbelievable. You know what the Western world did to himself? It's like to commit suicide. Send your enemy from Paris to Tehran. That's what they did. They had a direct flight from Paris to Tehran. And the Ayatollah Khomeini, after 2 or 3 months, he took Iran. That was the Islamic Revolution.

So, what do we do with Iran now?

So, what we... no, first of all, I want to congratulate the president for the sanctions that he declared, actually, the Minister of Finance declared, but it was because of President Trump's decision. The sanctions are very good. This is very good. They will collapse after a few months. It's a matter of time, you know. You can't do it in one day. 5 weeks, I don't know who said... If they collapse, they collapse fast. Okay, wait, wait. First of all, it's a good question, by the way. It's a very good question, but it's a process. It will take time. You know, empires, like, they are not... you can't destroy them in one day. They can't collapse in one day. It's a process. It takes time. So, I don't know, by the way, the quote that you just mentioned, 5 or 6 weeks, who said it?

The president said it. President Trump said it.

I don't want to... Okay.

At the beginning, that will be... we'll finish them off in 5, 6 weeks.

Okay, I don't want to say it, because I said that the, personally, I said that the operation it didn't succeed.

And I'm not criticizing what I'm saying. It didn't succeed, and it led us to where we are now. We're at a little bit of a stalemate. You hope that the sanctions... will bring a new regime. I hope you're right. But in the meantime, Israel in the meantime, Iran still has enough missiles, enough drones, enough influence with Hamas, enough influence with Hezbollah to create havoc. And just this morning, our Secretary of State...

Rubio said that if you continue the direction you're in, going in, you're going to have to do it alone. He said that this morning.

Okay. First, can you do it alone? That we will do it alone?

Can you?

That's what he said. I don't know.

Do you have that?

It's the first time that I...

No, look, I mean, we all want to see Israel survive.

Yes, of course.

I'm worried.

If Iran, if we're not there to help and Iran sends thousands of drones, hundreds of missiles into Israel, does Israel have the capability to defend itself against that?

The answer is yes. I know what I'm saying.

I'm glad to hear that.

The answer is yes, and I don't want to... and I don't want to...

No, no, I don't... I'm not looking for details. I'm looking for...

You asked me a question.

No, but...

And I think that it was a very good question. It's the first time that I heard the position, or the new position, of the Secretary of State. If we will do it, if we... you know that I remember that Prime Minister Netanyahu said, I think it was April or May 2024, when President Biden actually declared the embargo, the first embargo ever. Someone will need to ask this gentleman, the President of the United States, Joe Biden, who told him to declare an embargo against the State of Israel during a very vicious war. Maybe someone will ask him. Maybe you'll do it. I don't know if you invite him to this podcast. Please, I want you to ask him who gave him the advice to declare an embargo against the State of Israel. But let's put it aside. And then the Prime Minister said that if we'll need, we'll struggle for our independence with our own hands, if it will be necessary. I can't forget this sentence that he said from his office. And we'll do it. And you asked if we have the capabilities?

I did ask. The answer is... But it was not only Rubio that set me off, my concern off about the defense of Israel. It was a statement by one of our generals not long ago saying because of our activities in Iran, we have a shortage of weaponry and we would not be able to protect Israel as we once could because of that. So that's a worrisome statement as well.

First of all, we have... I think that I can't say, I can't... I don't want to say that it's 100% of the Israelis, but a lot of them. There is a lot, a lot of appreciation to the President of the United States for his support. First of all, during the first operation... by the way, we did it by ourselves, except last night, so you have the answer... and during the second operation, of course, the last one. I want to say something about Iran. So it's not one night. It's not one night. It's not 10 nights. It's even not 7 months. It's a process. They build themselves to destroy the United States of America. Why do you think they need their intercontinental missiles? They don't need it to... to use the intercontinental missiles toward Israel. They need to use their continental missiles with the nuclear weapon, by the way. Nuclear weapon. Hello to all our viewers. The Iranians want nuclear weapon and intercontinental missiles to destroy this place. How do I know it? They're saying it from 1979. You better believe them. You know, I learned from history that when a regime, a cruel regime, fascist regime, is saying to you that he wants to destroy you, you better believe him. That's what Hitler said. He wrote a book, Mein Kampf. You know, maybe we'll close with it, because... but before we'll close, I want to say a few optimistic things about the new year.

Almost 2 weeks before our Rosh Hashanah.

That's right.

The high holidays are coming.

The high holidays. But I want to, you know, to say something about... before I say a few words about the high holidays, I said that they want... about Mein Kampf that Hitler wrote. Yes, so our brave soldiers, our brave soldiers found, by the way, not in Hamas headquarters in Gaza, in private houses in Gaza, they found Mein Kampf in Arabic. Why someone needs to read Mein Kampf if he don't want to destroy you? Why? And they found hundreds. A lot of copies of Mein Kampf in the Gaza Strip.

But look, there's no question that Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran wants to destroy Israel.

No, no, there is...

No one has questioned that.

No, I disagree.

Because they say it every single day.

Exactly. But there's a lot of naive or maybe stupid people, maybe stupid, why naive people? Stupid people who are saying, okay, Hamas, they are just talking, they wrote, first chapter in their agenda.

But like we have here in the United States, we have extremists. You have extremists in Israel.

And a lot of the folks here in the United States, and I believe it is a small minority that is anti-Israel, uses the words of some of your own people like this, Ben Gvir, who is the Minister of National Security, who comes out and says we should be assassinating 30 or 40 people in Gaza every night. And they use that for their... here, for their propaganda purposes. And it works against Israel's best interests. But we have people that say stupid things too that are politicians. I understand that.

Yes. I don't know. I don't know this. I don't know this quote. But of course, that our goal is the opposite, is that the Gazans will live, but not under Hamas regime. That's the whole formula. That's the whole formula. We don't... I want that their kids will live, but not under Hamas regime, and they will not participate in summer camps that all they're, you know, saying there is death to Israel. 5, 4-year-old kids are saying that they want to destroy Israel last summer in the Gaza Strip. It's a bad education.

It's a wrong education. But I want to give you a different viewpoint because I was in Gaza in 2018.

I had... it was for work.

And I was there for 3 days, and I met with a lot of young Palestinians in their 20s and early 30s that couldn't find work. And so they stayed in school. They have higher educations, master's, PhD. I asked them, what do you want?

We just want a job in Israel. We want financial security.

Financial security?

Yeah, they couldn't get work. They can't support themselves or their families.

They don't want it in Jordan. They don't want it in Egypt. They don't want it in Syria. They don't want... they want Israel to destroy Israel.

Not all of them.

No, all of them. Most of them.

That's what I'm saying.

Most of them. You saw that not only the Nukhbas, not only the Nukhbas terrorists invaded on October 7th to the State of Israel, not only the Nukhbas. So, 16 years old, 25 years old, 70 and 80 years old invaded. We didn't know. I remember this picture to the state of, this is not their country. There's zero soldiers, Israeli soldiers, in the Gaza Strip on October 7th. That was cruel. And you saw the maps when they received the cars with the hostages. What they did to our soldiers, to women...

It was brutal. It was brutal. It was unforgivable.

Unforgivable.

No excuse.

That's the word.

No excuse.

By the way, when we gave them the permission, when we gave them the permission to walk in Israel, a lot of them exploded themselves in Dizengoff Center in Tel Aviv. I heard one explosion, and I saw another one. And I know it from Jerusalem, from Netanya, from Beersheba, from Nahariya, all around. They will not come to walk in Israel to explode themselves and kill 25 people. It's, by the way, much more, much more than one missile that they actually launched during the years.

I want you to address now...

By the way, prove.

I just want you to address right now the Israel haters in this country, in this city, in this country. And I wanted you to explain to them when they say that your response to October 7th has been out of proportion.

Out of proportion?

I want you to address them now.

The opposite is the truth. I think that any other include United States of America, the response was totally different, much stronger, much stronger. I remember in a few events in the past that the American response about, you know, different terror attacks against the United States was much stronger, much, much stronger. So, there is a criticism about Israel. There's a lot of Israelis who are saying that it was a weak response, too weak response after what they did. They throw babies to burning ovens. Barbaric people. I will never apologize. I will never apologize. Their behavior was like animals. I know. What, do you want me to show you a few pictures that I have at my office? What they did to... I can't talk about it. To hundreds of women in the Nova Festival. It was like a peace festival, a music peace festival. What they did, they acted like animals. I need to apologize? I need to defend my people.

No one is asking.

And if they want to criticize Israel, they can criticize Israel. I prefer to live rather than to hear their idiotic criticism. So, enough with the...

Earlier in our discussion, you used the example of a missile from New Jersey to New York.

Let me say this. Your loss of 1,200 people that day, plus...

Would be equivalent to our loss of 30,000 people on an attack like that. And I think we, as Americans, better step back and think how we would respond.

That's what I said. That's what I said. Now, if the Gazans want peace, they must, they must throw Hamas from the Gaza Strip. How they will do it? They don't... it's not, you know, from God that Hamas are there. They are cruel people. They are cruel people for the Gazans themselves, not only to the Israelis.

They're corrupt people.

Of course.

I mean, millions and millions of dollars...

That's right.

That have flowed...

And what about the humanitarian aid?

Have flowed into Gaza.

And what about the humanitarian aid? Where did it go? Who stole it?

How did it improve the lives of the ordinary people?

No Hamas. Now there's the 21-point peace initiative. First of all, Hamas must lay down their weapons. Okay? If they will not do it, we can't continue. We can't continue. I have a dream. Okay? If you want, you said that you visited in the Gaza Strip.

You and Martin Luther King. Okay, what's your dream?

My dream is that Gaza will be like the Emirates, that Gaza will look like Bahrain, that Gaza will be with a lot of skyscrapers.

Another Dubai.

Exactly. You know, it's possible. You know why? Because they have the beautiful beach. A beautiful beach with a huge potential to a very, very modern port. We can, if the Hezbollah will not be in Lebanon and Hamas will not be in the Gaza Strip, we can operate the fast train between Beirut, Haifa, Tel Aviv, Gaza to Cairo. How do I know it? Well, there was such a train before 1948 who runs from Beirut to Cairo. Night boat to Canaan, night train to Cairo.

You just hit the solution. The solution is economic development.

No Hamas and no Hezbollah. I agree.

I totally agree.

The solution is give the Palestinians the wherewithal to create a thriving economy, one that... and a country that respects civil rights and human rights.

It's like very, very difficult for them to respect civil rights.

Look, it's difficult, but that is the solution.

I agree, I am for it. And actually, our policy is to... first of all, we need to try, of course, that they will rule their own lives in the Gaza Strip, but not under Hamas regime.

Of course, of course.

That's the whole story. Then the Qataris, instead of their money, actually, all the tunnels, sponsored, the tunnels beneath the Gaza Strip sponsored by Qatar, they will build skyscrapers in the Gaza Strip, not, you know, not underground, but above ground. That's what they need to do.

Well, not only Qatar, we're here in the United States, we've pledged to help turn Gaza into an economic success story.

A Riviera. Why not? There's one condition.

No Hamas?

No Hamas, no terror organization.

I don't think you would find a disagreement from anyone about that.

That's good. No, I'm not sure. Unfortunately, there's a lot of people here who are saying Hamas, Hamas, cheering Hamas. People here, here, students, stupid students, uneducated students who prefer... by the way, with them, this organization Queers for Palestine, if they will come, as a queer to what they called Gaza, they will kill them in less than 1 second. It will take 1 second, they will take them like this, to the roof, and will throw them to the roof. How do I know it? They did it. They did it to a lot of...

You're always gonna find the small groups or individuals that are dedicated to create turmoil.

It's all about standing out, speaking loudly, not knowing what you're talking about.

You're right.

But speaking louder than the others.

You're right.

Mr. Ambassador, thank you so much.

Thank you so much. I want to wish you, your family, and the audience a Happy New Year. It's a Hebrew New Year, Aleph and Bet Tishrei, and then Yom Kippur. And then Chag Sukkot, the high holidays, as you said. And I want to wish to the world a much better year.

Well, beyond that, I want to wish you, your family, thank you, your friends, your colleagues, the Israelis. I wish them peace, safety, and security.

Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you.

From Stalemate to Skyscrapers: Iran, October 7, and Gaza's Future

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